I am a long time Marvel guy, but these movies take so long to make, and I think this was planned out back when Marvel thought they were still as bulletproof as the Sentry (MASSIVE WINK).
So I'm not loving the generic creatives behind the scenes. And you're adapting a comic book - why are the visuals so dark and sludgy? This was all just ugly to the eyes. The colors should POP.
Fact is, I hate this, but there are a finite amount of Marvel stories you can tell. If you don't adapt them (and this seems far removed from the source), you need really talented nerd creatives (and not just really talented creatives, we're talking NERDS) to bring new life to these tropes and to refresh them within an interesting narrative. I don't know if they have those guys, and that bums me out. These movies used to be EVENTS, but at best, this just looks like a diversion.
Well to be fair, Thunderbolts was never going to be an event movie like the Avengers or even Iron Man/Cap movies. It's essentially about a JV squad. But I'm in.
Why should the colors pop? Is that some unwritten prerequisite of superhero movies that Batman never followed? Also, why do you need all-caps nerd creatives vs. talented creatives? Are nerds actually known for being fresh and forward thinking about their nerd tropes vs. any other creative?
That pushback all said, part of Marvel's crisis is that their first 4 phases were all "Events" because they were, authentically, in terms of being new and never before done in theatrical cinematic experiences...events. We'd never been given anything like a cinematic universe of that scope and regularity before. But now we have. Now it's blatant attempts to recapture past glories, no matter what they do. They're not doing the best job of it, no, but they also aren't objectively doing that much worse of a job than the middle section of Phases 2 and 3 back in the day (Iron Man 2 and Thor 2, the Whedon Avengers movies, they weren't particularly good, either.)
As a nerd myself, I'd argue nerds are more likely to have blind allegiance to the source material than a creative looking at it strictly from a story perspective. And being a nerd for something isn't always a net positive. Look at what Dave Filoni is doing to Star Wars. It's all fan service.
Your comments about the MCU as an event are spot-on. Though this blaspheme for The Avengers cannot stand. 🤓
Well, it occurs to me that the people they are hiring are unfamiliar with the mythos, or picking it up on the fly, if interviews are to be believed. So you need a nerd in there. But, y'know, not just ANY nerd... Mark Steven Johnson was a HUGE Daredevil nerd, and somehow they let him direct "Daredevil" and "Ghost Rider" back in the day.
And that's fair about Batman -- maybe the colors don't pop in those movies. But they are typically distinct and memorable. We all remember how each Batman movie is particularly visually outstanding. This "Thunderbolts" trailer just looked dreary and dull visually. And it's a "team" movie -- these guys should stand out from each other a little bit more, no? I do hope they can adjust that in post. That being said, they released the new poster too, and it's immediately clear that they used a.i. for that, so maybe their decisions have been made.
Oh man, the AI poster is such a facepalming thing. Like, how does their marketing department not know to look for six fingered hands when the whole of the internet already does? Which makes me fear Marvel is still overextending itself, and the quality or the ability to find the next new thing for them will continue to be an issue. While RDJ and the Russos returning are mildly exciting, it's all backwards-looking, cheap-ad-easy answers to their current problems that aren't going to fix anything in the long run.
I think Marvel decided to do a course-correction the way an alcoholic decides to stop drinking. "I'm gonna turn things around, starting tomorrow! Except I have all these things already set up, and I can't back out, and, ah, yeah, ok, one more drink, I don't need to be up early."
I really liked the feel of the trailer, with that cool song choice, though I'm not really hyped for the movie as of yet. One thing that has me concerned is that they basically have 3 Captain America standins and 2 Black Widows, meaning very little diversity in terms of power and skill set.
I like the idea of Yelena feeling some existential ennui, which might be a meta-joke about the general attitude towards the MCU these days.
Of the MCU movies post-Endgame, I think Dr. Strange 2 and Eternals have been by far the best and most memorable. (Even though it has a flawed third act, Eternals really was visually and narratively distinct in a way most Marvel movies haven't.)
I'd say the mixed reviews didn't do Eternals justice. It has a structure, look and tone that really makes it stand out among the crowd, especially as it embraces the idea of its characters being mythic figures or Gods.
I totally get the Wanda issue though I haven't seen Wandavision. My understanding is that the original plan for Dr. Strange 2 was to show Wanda's descent into villainy, setting her up as the bad guy for another movie. Then Michael Waldron decided he didn't want to wait for that, so he just jumped forward to the point where she's already a bad guy.
I am a long time Marvel guy, but these movies take so long to make, and I think this was planned out back when Marvel thought they were still as bulletproof as the Sentry (MASSIVE WINK).
So I'm not loving the generic creatives behind the scenes. And you're adapting a comic book - why are the visuals so dark and sludgy? This was all just ugly to the eyes. The colors should POP.
Fact is, I hate this, but there are a finite amount of Marvel stories you can tell. If you don't adapt them (and this seems far removed from the source), you need really talented nerd creatives (and not just really talented creatives, we're talking NERDS) to bring new life to these tropes and to refresh them within an interesting narrative. I don't know if they have those guys, and that bums me out. These movies used to be EVENTS, but at best, this just looks like a diversion.
Fromtheyardtothearthouse.substack.com
Well to be fair, Thunderbolts was never going to be an event movie like the Avengers or even Iron Man/Cap movies. It's essentially about a JV squad. But I'm in.
Why should the colors pop? Is that some unwritten prerequisite of superhero movies that Batman never followed? Also, why do you need all-caps nerd creatives vs. talented creatives? Are nerds actually known for being fresh and forward thinking about their nerd tropes vs. any other creative?
That pushback all said, part of Marvel's crisis is that their first 4 phases were all "Events" because they were, authentically, in terms of being new and never before done in theatrical cinematic experiences...events. We'd never been given anything like a cinematic universe of that scope and regularity before. But now we have. Now it's blatant attempts to recapture past glories, no matter what they do. They're not doing the best job of it, no, but they also aren't objectively doing that much worse of a job than the middle section of Phases 2 and 3 back in the day (Iron Man 2 and Thor 2, the Whedon Avengers movies, they weren't particularly good, either.)
As a nerd myself, I'd argue nerds are more likely to have blind allegiance to the source material than a creative looking at it strictly from a story perspective. And being a nerd for something isn't always a net positive. Look at what Dave Filoni is doing to Star Wars. It's all fan service.
Your comments about the MCU as an event are spot-on. Though this blaspheme for The Avengers cannot stand. 🤓
Well, it occurs to me that the people they are hiring are unfamiliar with the mythos, or picking it up on the fly, if interviews are to be believed. So you need a nerd in there. But, y'know, not just ANY nerd... Mark Steven Johnson was a HUGE Daredevil nerd, and somehow they let him direct "Daredevil" and "Ghost Rider" back in the day.
And that's fair about Batman -- maybe the colors don't pop in those movies. But they are typically distinct and memorable. We all remember how each Batman movie is particularly visually outstanding. This "Thunderbolts" trailer just looked dreary and dull visually. And it's a "team" movie -- these guys should stand out from each other a little bit more, no? I do hope they can adjust that in post. That being said, they released the new poster too, and it's immediately clear that they used a.i. for that, so maybe their decisions have been made.
Fromtheyardtothearthouse.substack.com
Oh man, the AI poster is such a facepalming thing. Like, how does their marketing department not know to look for six fingered hands when the whole of the internet already does? Which makes me fear Marvel is still overextending itself, and the quality or the ability to find the next new thing for them will continue to be an issue. While RDJ and the Russos returning are mildly exciting, it's all backwards-looking, cheap-ad-easy answers to their current problems that aren't going to fix anything in the long run.
I think Marvel decided to do a course-correction the way an alcoholic decides to stop drinking. "I'm gonna turn things around, starting tomorrow! Except I have all these things already set up, and I can't back out, and, ah, yeah, ok, one more drink, I don't need to be up early."
Fromtheyardtothearthouse.substack.com
The endless superhero farewell tour continues....
They will never completely go away. I'm just hoping for some good ones.
Since I write superhero fiction, I'm glad they still get audiences.
I also got so excited just seeing Stan and Pugh! I love both their characters and they are awesome actors. I can't wait.
I really liked the feel of the trailer, with that cool song choice, though I'm not really hyped for the movie as of yet. One thing that has me concerned is that they basically have 3 Captain America standins and 2 Black Widows, meaning very little diversity in terms of power and skill set.
I like the idea of Yelena feeling some existential ennui, which might be a meta-joke about the general attitude towards the MCU these days.
Of the MCU movies post-Endgame, I think Dr. Strange 2 and Eternals have been by far the best and most memorable. (Even though it has a flawed third act, Eternals really was visually and narratively distinct in a way most Marvel movies haven't.)
I still haven't seen Eternals.🙈 Couldn't muster up the enthusiasm. Strange 2 was ok but I didn't appreciate how it treated Wanda.
Btw nice call on Thunderbolts having 3 Cap stand-ins! Didn't see it, can't unsee it now.
I'd say the mixed reviews didn't do Eternals justice. It has a structure, look and tone that really makes it stand out among the crowd, especially as it embraces the idea of its characters being mythic figures or Gods.
I totally get the Wanda issue though I haven't seen Wandavision. My understanding is that the original plan for Dr. Strange 2 was to show Wanda's descent into villainy, setting her up as the bad guy for another movie. Then Michael Waldron decided he didn't want to wait for that, so he just jumped forward to the point where she's already a bad guy.
Ahh so they looked at how HBO treated Daenerys turn and said, that looks great. 🫠
That's a good analogy! Though I wonder if some other project down the line will try to fill in the gaps with flashbacks and stuff.
When this was announced I was ready to give them money.
You and me both! May 2025 can't come soon enough.
I'm optimistic about Captain America: Brave New World, but giddy for Thunderbolts.