You make a good point that Marvel had no idea what to do with Bucky after Endgame. But did they have any idea what to do with ANYONE after Endgame? At the end of every earlier movie, you had a general idea where these characters would go. But since then, the endings and post-credits sequences very broadly outline random possible followups that so clearly haven't been written or even planned yet. What's supposed to happen with the Eternals? Thor 4 had the most amusing contradiction -- he had found a sense of love and community with his new adopted daughter, and yet Hercules was planning to get him. NEITHER of those plot threads were actually planned. Shang-Chi was a few years ago -- has anyone found out about the Ten Rings that were being investigated by Bruce Banner and Captain Marvel? We did hear Blade's voice at one point, didn't we?
💯 Endgame was such a moment of finality, Marvel has struggled to restart their interconnected story engine. The advent of Disney+ contentification of the MCU hasn't help. But the real issue is they took their eye off the ball. They stopped giving us a reason to care.
I really wish they let the creative people talk to each other when they're working on interlocking movies and shows -- it really sounds like they don't encourage that, which is crazy. I heard a whacko rumor that at one point while developing Thunderbolts, they wanted to turn US Agent into a red Hulk for the finale. Come on, guys.
If Thunderbolt is the end of Phase 5, what are the other parts of phase 5? I'm excited, not just because there is a list :) , but to get the thread reconnected in my (now feeble) Marvel universe brain. And then, can we revisit all the parts of the first 4 phases at some future date? I'm excited to see Thunderbolt, regardless.
Wikipedia claims Phase 5 includes Ant-Man 3, Guardians of the Galaxy 3, The Marvels, Deadpool and Wolverine, Captain America: Brave New World and Thunderbolts. It is amazing how little these movies have to do with each other.
If you want to go deeper, the shows in Phase 5 include Loki Season 2, Secret Invasion, Echo, Daredevil Born Again, Ironheart, Agatha All Along and (why...?) the non-canon What If? seasons two and three and the animated Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.
I only count the films as canon Phase 5. I just can't bother keeping up with the shows. Too many and they've been bad of late. I haven't tried any of the animated shows.
The Spider-Man show is actually great fun. Unfortunately it's hemmed into the MCU -- it feels like they wanted to make it in continuity but they backtracked halfway through, so like it's an alternate MCU as opposed to an all-out different take on the character. But it's funny and the voicework is solid and it explores different facets of Peter Parker we haven't yet known. The visual style is also pretty cool.
Comparatively I always thought What If visually looked cheap and stupid. That too is more of an alternate MCU as opposed to an alternate world all its own. I wouldn't recommend, but it vaguely feels that echoes of this dopey show will be felt in the next Avengers movies, little bits of mythology and maybe even characters.
Not counting Deadpool, the Daredevil show is the first r-rated content that will have MCU ramifications. I love the Daredevil show.
The Disney show is an attempt to rectify some of the problems with the otherwise excellent Netflix adaptation. So there's more action, somehow it's more brutal, and it ties (somewhat) directly to the MCU.
However, you can tell that some of it was footage they shot previously, and some of it is new material, and they unsuccessfully decided to jam it all together. There might be an episode where "x" is somehow really important, and then the next episode no one mentions "x" and then the episode like that, they're like WE HAVE TO FIND X. Sort of like when you watched shows in your youth, and they became serialized at random points just because they wanted to. There's really good looking footage that's been repurposed for montages, or, like, camera footage, stuff like that.
Also, there was one pivotal moment where, out of nowhere, they played the Spider-Man theme. Stop it, guy. You're not gonna get Spider-Man to show up in this series.
But it starts solid and I thought it got better and better. And it's definitely a slightly-altered season four of the Netflix show.
I have seen all of these except for Ironheart, which is coming soon. And I can tell you Secret Invasion and the fourth Captain America are as inessential as they come.
You make a good point that Marvel had no idea what to do with Bucky after Endgame. But did they have any idea what to do with ANYONE after Endgame? At the end of every earlier movie, you had a general idea where these characters would go. But since then, the endings and post-credits sequences very broadly outline random possible followups that so clearly haven't been written or even planned yet. What's supposed to happen with the Eternals? Thor 4 had the most amusing contradiction -- he had found a sense of love and community with his new adopted daughter, and yet Hercules was planning to get him. NEITHER of those plot threads were actually planned. Shang-Chi was a few years ago -- has anyone found out about the Ten Rings that were being investigated by Bruce Banner and Captain Marvel? We did hear Blade's voice at one point, didn't we?
Fromtheyardtothearthouse.substack.com
💯 Endgame was such a moment of finality, Marvel has struggled to restart their interconnected story engine. The advent of Disney+ contentification of the MCU hasn't help. But the real issue is they took their eye off the ball. They stopped giving us a reason to care.
I really wish they let the creative people talk to each other when they're working on interlocking movies and shows -- it really sounds like they don't encourage that, which is crazy. I heard a whacko rumor that at one point while developing Thunderbolts, they wanted to turn US Agent into a red Hulk for the finale. Come on, guys.
Fromtheyardtothearthouse.substack.com
That is a terrible idea! Smh 🤦🏼♂️
Yes, this was what confused me---Endgame.
Why call it that, except to generate excitement? I was done ät that point and not happy about it, but done.
They need to scrap everything and birth new characters. They need a
Mothergoddess for that.
If Thunderbolt is the end of Phase 5, what are the other parts of phase 5? I'm excited, not just because there is a list :) , but to get the thread reconnected in my (now feeble) Marvel universe brain. And then, can we revisit all the parts of the first 4 phases at some future date? I'm excited to see Thunderbolt, regardless.
Thanks for this!
Wikipedia claims Phase 5 includes Ant-Man 3, Guardians of the Galaxy 3, The Marvels, Deadpool and Wolverine, Captain America: Brave New World and Thunderbolts. It is amazing how little these movies have to do with each other.
If you want to go deeper, the shows in Phase 5 include Loki Season 2, Secret Invasion, Echo, Daredevil Born Again, Ironheart, Agatha All Along and (why...?) the non-canon What If? seasons two and three and the animated Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.
Fromtheyardtothearthouse.substack.com
I only count the films as canon Phase 5. I just can't bother keeping up with the shows. Too many and they've been bad of late. I haven't tried any of the animated shows.
The Spider-Man show is actually great fun. Unfortunately it's hemmed into the MCU -- it feels like they wanted to make it in continuity but they backtracked halfway through, so like it's an alternate MCU as opposed to an all-out different take on the character. But it's funny and the voicework is solid and it explores different facets of Peter Parker we haven't yet known. The visual style is also pretty cool.
Comparatively I always thought What If visually looked cheap and stupid. That too is more of an alternate MCU as opposed to an alternate world all its own. I wouldn't recommend, but it vaguely feels that echoes of this dopey show will be felt in the next Avengers movies, little bits of mythology and maybe even characters.
Not counting Deadpool, the Daredevil show is the first r-rated content that will have MCU ramifications. I love the Daredevil show.
I have yet to check out the new Daredevil but I loved the Netflix show. Amazing adaptation.
The Disney show is an attempt to rectify some of the problems with the otherwise excellent Netflix adaptation. So there's more action, somehow it's more brutal, and it ties (somewhat) directly to the MCU.
However, you can tell that some of it was footage they shot previously, and some of it is new material, and they unsuccessfully decided to jam it all together. There might be an episode where "x" is somehow really important, and then the next episode no one mentions "x" and then the episode like that, they're like WE HAVE TO FIND X. Sort of like when you watched shows in your youth, and they became serialized at random points just because they wanted to. There's really good looking footage that's been repurposed for montages, or, like, camera footage, stuff like that.
Also, there was one pivotal moment where, out of nowhere, they played the Spider-Man theme. Stop it, guy. You're not gonna get Spider-Man to show up in this series.
But it starts solid and I thought it got better and better. And it's definitely a slightly-altered season four of the Netflix show.
Fromtheyardtothearthouse.substack.com
Thanks for your efforts to enlighten me. Is my life going to be long enough to
unravel and watch these?
We will see.
BTW, I meant IRONHEART, not Thunderheart.
I have seen all of these except for Ironheart, which is coming soon. And I can tell you Secret Invasion and the fourth Captain America are as inessential as they come.
Fromtheyardtothearthouse.substack.com